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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Hello all, long time no speak. Hope all is well. I've been reading the forums recently, but not really got round to posting, sorry about that. I will be posting a few questions over the next few weeks and I would be hugely greatful if you could help me with them? Also, as I get to read everyone elses amazing journeys, I thought I would let you know about mine.
First of all, thanks very much for everything so far. Over 2 years already. You have helped and advised me on visiting Russia (twice), getting an Italian Schengen visa for Naddy for a holiday and also the stressful first UK Visitor visa, which if you don't remember, had some complications along the way. Since then, Naddy visited the UK twice over the course of the 6 months and on the second occasion I decided to propose to her on Christmas day. She burst into tears, but she said yes! =) We have just had a lovely holiday in Cyprus and we decided that we will get married in Russia.
I am going over to Moscow in the middle of August and then returning to England with Naddy for back to back holidays, where we will be attending a family wedding (Visitor Visa pending, grrr). We will be applying for the Visitor Visa in the next 1 - 2 weeks and after seeing the waiting times 
When I visit Moscow, we are planning to visit the ZAGS and do the required stuff. She asked about how long we would have to wait, and they mentioned that we would need to wait 30+ days after confirmation, before we can get married (meaning I'd go back there later on). Or something like that. I will be obtaining my CNI, but not for a few weeks because of the 90 day validity. I'm sure it varies, but how long does it generally take to get a CNI? I realise that I will probably have to book an appointment at my local registry office as well.
After getting the CNI, am I right in saying that I get it legalised with an apostle at the legalisation department in MK? Once I get that, I can just take it with me and get it translated in Russia (Naddy knows a certified translator person thingy)? Do I need to get anything else legalised or translated? I've never been married before for your information.
If the 30+ day thing can't be bypassed, I'll be returning a month later to get married.
Timeline:
Apply for CNI and get it for start of August. Say 05/08/2012. Get it legalised before 15/08/2012 (when I fly).
Visit Russia and do all the neccessary things at ZAGS. Sometime between 15/08/2012 - 22/08/2012.
Return when I can get married and do it. Sometime in September or early October.
CNI would expire sometime around 05/11/2012? Right?
Just in-case you are interested, we have decided to have a low key wedding over there. Just the formalities and then after we eventually get the Spouse visa, we would have a larger ceremony here, which would be more like our actual wedding (and of course, she would love a honeymoon, pffft! :D).
One final question, in preparation for the Spouse visa, Naddy is going to take a language test to satisfy that requirement. We were looking at the KET and PET tests (ESOL), which she would have no problem passing. Is there anything different you would recommend she takes, or is a KET or PET exam fine? Any advantage of taking a higher test? Maybe useful for the future?
If you think there is anything that I missed during my explanation, please let me know and I'll be happy to try fill in the blanks if something doesn't make sense. Thanks in advance.
Take care,
Nick | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| "...I'm sure it varies, but how long does it generally take to get a CNI? ..."
There is a statutory waiting period.
From a dim & distant memory it's 28 days - but phone to CHECK with your local registry office. Then you make an appointment to go and see them at the calculated time, take birth certificate, any previous decree(s) absolute, sign the forms, hand over your dosh and wait the prescribed time. As it says on the RR website make sure you get the CNI stamped by the registry office. Ours said that they didn't do that sort of thing, I explained that it was a belt & braces measure and that really any old stamp would probably do - so they used 2: their address and a date stamp.
When we got married, having got the CNI I had RR organise the various translations etc - basically because I was too busy working like a mad dog at the time.
As for ESOL - I'd suggest that you chek out the different levels as best as you can and that Naddy goes for the highest level she feels comfortable with. Bear in mind that if she's not at Entry Level 3 standard then she'll have up to 2 years to get to that level before she needs to take Life in UK , OR up to 2 years to improve 1 level via an ESOL course (best get that over and done with in 1st year).
The highest level is best because if, especially if better than Entry Level 3, she'll have a decent language certificate to flash in front of any prospective employers. BUT only go for the highest level she feels comfortable with - to aim too high and fail would be a major PITA and knock all timescales into touch.
HTH
PS when we got married, we had pre-booked a night at a hotel in Moscow - under BOTH NAMES. The hotel was able to provide the booking & invoice in English and we included that in the docs for the spouse visa application.
PPS "...do the required stuff..." nudge, nudge, wink, wink
Edited by senwd 2012-05-24 7:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2162
Location: When at home either Sakhalin Island or Scotland | Further to the good advise given by "senwd" note that all documents that you take to Russia must be legalised (apostilled) by the FCO (legalisation department in MK) so for example your birth certificate will need to be legalised. And before I forget  for the forthcoming 
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Redcar & Lermontov Nr Pyatigorsk | lol mate you're priceless | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Thanks senwd and Rasboinik. Okay, I'm quite happy with the CNI part, I'll make sure I get it stamped and plan accordingly to get it issued when I need it to be issued. Guessing the ZAGs make a big deal of this stamp?
Apart from the CNI, does anything else actually need legalising and translating? I thought I read that the ZAGs would only require my passport and CNI (+ apostle and translation of them)?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/new-...
On the above link, I see the ESOL Skills for Life Entry (1, 2, 3) and Level (1, 2) tests. Are these the ones you mean when talking about "Entry 3"?
Entry 1 = A1
Entry 2 = A2
Entry 3 = B1
Level 1 = B2
Level 2 = C1
So does Naddy just need to do an exam where she can get a B1 mark? The KET test ranges from A1 - B1, whilst the PET test ranges from A2 - B2. Therefore, if she passes the KET with the maximum B1 mark, or passes the PET with a B1 or higher, then she is already at Entry 3 standard and will have that in the bag for the ILR and will just need to pass Life In The UK?
IELTS (Academic and General Training) is another which starts at a B1 level and has a maximum of a C2 level. Therefore if she took this one and got the minimum level, she would be at Entry 3 already? Unfortunately, it is not possible to take the ESOL Skills for Life Entry / Level tests outside of the UK.
Short version of my question: Is a B1 pass mark in any of those approved tests, already at Entry 3?
Thanks | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Nikky - 2012-05-24 8:31 PM
Apart from the CNI, does anything else actually need legalising and translating? I thought I read that the ZAGs would only require my passport and CNI (+ apostle and translation of them)?
From memory, that's all you need. at the ZAGS - plus your intended's docs, plus the fee IN CASH .
On the above link, I see the ESOL Skills for Life Entry (1, 2, 3) and Level (1, 2) tests. Are these the ones you mean when talking about "Entry 3"?
Entry 1 = A1
Entry 2 = A2
Entry 3 = B1
Level 1 = B2
Level 2 = C1
Correct
http://www.cambridgeesol.org/about/standards/cefr.html
So does Naddy just need to do an exam where she can get a B1 mark? The KET test ranges from A1 - B1, whilst the PET test ranges from A2 - B2. Therefore, if she passes the KET with the maximum B1 mark, or passes the PET with a B1 or higher, then she is already at Entry 3 standard and will have that in the bag for the ILR and will just need to pass Life In The UK?
Correct again
Unfortunately, it is not possible to take the ESOL Skills for Life Entry / Level tests outside of the UK.
You don't. You do it in the UK.
If passing Entry Level 3/B1 is a problem, then check UKBA website for most recent rules on language. For a few on here their wives were able to come to the UK and then take ESOL + Citizenship courses whilst in the UK.
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | You don't. You do it in the UK.
If passing Entry Level 3/B1 is a problem, then check UKBA website for most recent rules on language. For a few on here their wives were able to come to the UK and then take ESOL + Citizenship courses whilst in the UK.
Nope, what I meant was - it is not possible to take the actual "ESOL Skills for Life Entry 3" exam outside the UK. Since the UKBA quote Entry 3 or equivilent, I thought I'd check to see the actual test they were quoting. From there I established that we couldn't take this unless in the UK. And that is why I asked about Entry 3 = B1 and being able to pass at a B1 level or higher and then we would already have Entry 3 / equivilent before even getting the Spouse visa.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
If she is confident enough, she might go for the IELTS test (B1 is the lowest pass mark). Otherwise, I already know she is happy with taking the PET. She would most definitely not have an issue with passing the KET. Her English is pretty good, but... try telling her that  | |
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Veteran
Posts: 172
| Nikky - 2012-05-24 11:34 PM
Her English is pretty good, but... try telling her that
Hi Nick,
Boy, does that last sentence resonate with me! If her English is not perfect, it's useless .. I hear it all the time from Olga!
It looks like we're at a very similar stage in our relationship. I received my CNI earlier this month and everything is currently in the hands of RR as regards the translations, etc of marriage documents. We plan to marry in Russia within the next two months.
Just on this point, you probably don't have as much time as you think. The CNI process can take well over a month (getting an appointment + waiting for the certificate to be issued) - then the translations, etc will take at least two weeks.
Regarding the English tests, Olga is currently staying with me on her visitor visa. She took the KET exams last weekend (18th & 19th) and, as I write, she is currently at another language school, taking the TOEFL iBT exam.
KET is really as simple as it gets. PET is similar, but a little more difficult. Over the past three weeks, we have gone through many KET and PET sample papers.
Bear in mind that you must register quite early for any of the tests. Also bear in mind that it's really not easy to find a centre which is running the KET exam. Bournemouth has a whole host of English language schools - most of them don't even bother with KET and PET because they are too simple. Any test centre requires a minimum number of entrants before they will even consider running these exams.
We got very lucky in finding a centre which was running KET during Olga's visit - the school only confirmed her entry at the last minute, after they received another couple of applications. This is why I had also booked her in for the TOEFL iBT test today. There were five others taking KET at the same time as Olga - they had travelled to Bournemouth from all over the south of the UK, simply because they couldn't find another centre which was running the exam.
Anyway, KET is certainly very simple. Olga struggled with a couple of questions and therefore, for her, it was a 'terrible disaster'!  90 percent will never do!
For the UKBA required A1 standard, she actually only needs 45 percent in KET. If Naddy's English is reasonably good, then she'll have absolutely no problems whatsoever. Similarly with PET, although this one is slightly more difficult.
One more thing to bear in mind with these tests is the length of time that you'll need to wait for the results. Olga's final KET exam was on 19th May - she will not receive her results until 29th June - that's an unbelievable six weeks wait. For this reason, we decided that she should also sit the TOEFL iBT test today - rather than going to the beach!
The TOEFL iBT result will be known on 6th June (just 10 days).
But my advice - avoid TOEFL iBT - unless Naddy's English is really very good. Try convincing her that her English is very good after sitting through a couple of these sample papers! I'd struggle to pass this test myself - simply because I'd struggle to stay awake.
The only advantage with TOEFL iBT is the UKBA's low requirements. This is why I originally booked the test. Each section is marked out of 30 and the requirements are:
Reading (all multiple choice questions) - 0/30
Listening (all multiple choice questions) - 9/30
I did a sample paper myself and simply guessed all the answers - I got 7 and 11 respectively.
Speaking (this is the more difficult bit) - 5/30 (but you'll be fine if you can speak a basic standard of English)
Writing (I've suggested that Olga should leave before this part) - 0/30
By the way Nick, if you'd like to borrow a load of revision material and sample papers for KET, PET and TOEFL iBT, let me know. I've got a big pile built up in my wardrobe - it will all go on eBay eventually!
HTH and good luck to you both ..
Adam
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Cheers for all the info Adam. I've already started to enquire about the CNI. Congratulations in advance of your marriage
Nadya will be taking the exam in Moscow, and availability so far seems okay. The revision material / sample papers for the KET/PET exams would be great. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Well, Naddy got her Visitor visa today, so we are looking forward to a nice 10 days together in August.
I should get my tourist visa back in the next few days. Got my appointment to get my CNI on Monday also, so all set for that.
When I go over in August, to start off the process, will I need to register (I will only be in Russia for 7 days, 2 being Sat / Sun) in order to get a wedding date set, or will I only need that for the actual wedding? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Personally I would register. You don't want a jobsworth refusing to do the paperwork at this stage just because they want to see your registration - even though technically you don't need it as you're under the 7 days.
My thought process through the whole thing at the time was "if it's a possible obstacle - remove it".
Edited by senwd 2012-07-05 10:55 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3901
Location: In the Windmills of my mind... | I am not sure, but I think that you MUST be registered to make a wedding application in Russia....... May be wrong, but I think not.... HTH Congratulations..... | |
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Expert
Posts: 2162
Location: When at home either Sakhalin Island or Scotland | Mel - 2012-07-07 1:14 AM I am not sure, but I think that you MUST be registered to make a wedding application in Russia....... May be wrong, but I think not.... HTH Congratulations..... I wish to second the congratulations extended my Mel.
I will also clarify that you must be registered for any official dealings in Russia and official dealings include making an application to get married.
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Then I shall be registered! Thanks | |
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Expert
Posts: 3901
Location: In the Windmills of my mind... | Rasboinik - 2012-07-06 10:34 PM Mel - 2012-07-07 1:14 AM I am not sure, but I think that you MUST be registered to make a wedding application in Russia....... May be wrong, but I think not.... HTH Congratulations..... I wish to second the congratulations extended my Mel.
I will also clarify that you must be registered for any official dealings in Russia and official dealings include making an application to get married.
Know it all.....
Edited by Mel 2012-07-07 9:27 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | I have the CNI appointment soon, does anyone know how I should display Naddy's name?
If I was translating her first name Надежда, it would be: Nadezhda
But in her International Passport, it got translated to: Nadezda
Which one should be used? Any ideas? | |
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Veteran
Posts: 162
Location: South Oxfordshire | Hi Nick,
my Nadya has the same problem, her international passport also names her as Nadezda, when in fact her name is Nadezhda just as you correctly translated it. Looking back through your thread, you have been to apply for your C.N.I. already. I don't think it matters that much which version you put on the application, it's going to be translated into Russian for the registrar anyway. But it's probably wiser to use the same version as the passport for anything offical. Everything for my wife in this country is in the name of Nadezhda, bank accounts, N.H.S. registration etc. Her spouse visa was issued in Moscow naming her Nadezhda. Her I.L.R. issued in Cardiff names her Nadezda just to confuse things. I always book her flights in the name of Nadezda though, as in her passport, so as to avoid any problems that may arise at passport control. When she queried the spelling at the passport office in Izhevsk when it was issued, they told her that, "that is the way the computer translates it!" I would be interested to know if there are any Nadyas out there with the correct English translation in their international passports, or if they're all Nadezdas? 
Paul. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Hi Paul,
Yeh, I had already applied for the CNI and I put Nadezhda down on the CNI, as like you said, it will be translated back into Russian.
I pretty much am doing everything like you have done. With the exception of not having the pleasure of setting up a bank account, nhs registration etc 
Thanks for the reply, helped | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Got my cni back today. Does zags 4 in Moscow need the cni to be stamped by the registry office. They didn't have anything to stamp it with (milton keynes). Do I need to go back and argue some more or isn't it needed for zags 4? | |
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Expert
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Location: London | No stamp required at ZAGS 4, just translated, notarised and apostilled | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Cheers Malcolm :-) | |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Well, our holiday went to plan (apart from the 2 hours pushing at Russian immigration, it is true that only the English like to queue!!!).
7 days in Moscow and in that time I got my CNI & apostle translated and notarised, a trip to the ZAGS and a wedding date for October 5th.
The official in the ZAGs spoke English and it all went very smoothly. Ticked a few parts of the application with a pencil, few checks of the documents and we were good to go.
Then back to England for 10 days, very enjoyable and ended the trip with the purchase of two shiny wedding rings
Thanks for the advice, I'm sure I will have more questions in the future. Hopefully I can help others a bit now.
EDIT:
And thanks to RR for assisting with mine and the other halves visa's. Flawless.
Edited by Nikky 2012-08-31 8:45 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Well done, now just relax and enjoy the day when it happens. | |
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Expert
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Location: When at home either Sakhalin Island or Scotland | Congratulations on getting everything sorted 
For the 5th of October. Enjoy that day and be prepared to have lots of fun.
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Veteran
Posts: 107
Location: England | Thanks.
More good news today. Naddy checked the exam result site for her Cambridge English PET exam and it had been updated with her results.
She got a Pass with Distinction. 94/100. Maybe she should have taken a harder test, but I am so proud of her
Not completely sure what that means for us in the long term, but in the short term, we have the required level of English for the spouse visa when that comes along. | |
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